Dating with Herpes: An Honest Conversation and Eye Opening with Kelsey.

EXPLICIT CONTENT (FAMILIA DON'T LISTEN)

Kelsey (@kels) sits down for an unfiltered conversation about living with herpes, how it shaped her dating life, the messy moments, the bad dates, the gaps in sex education, and the real ways people cope, heal, and move forward. 

This episode was recorded about two years ago, so here’s where Kelsey is now:

• She’s in a healthy, supportive relationship
• HSV is a tiny, almost irrelevant part of her life
• She earned her PhD (yas, queen)

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey guys, it's your host, Alex G, and this is another episode of Just One Drink. Today I was actually hit up by a person named Kelsey. Say hi, Kelsey.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Hi everyone. Who are you, Kelsey? Um, my name is Kelsey Martinez, and I am a librarian by day and a sex positive um sexual health advocate by day also. Is it an all-day, all night kind of thing? Yes, I never take my superhero costume off.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

That's freaking awesome. What makes you want to come on and talk about? You know, some to some people talking about sex is so taboo, although I feel like it's a little bit more open now than it used to be. But why are you passionate about this?

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Um, for a lot of reasons. I mean, I think feminism at the heart. Um, but I was diagnosed with herpes when I was 21. So um herpes simplex virus type one, which is what people know as cold sores in the real world, um, but it can show up both orally and generally. And so when I got that in in 2013, so almost 10 years ago, um, I feel like it was still very taboo. I feel like now we're in a landscape where there is a lot more conversations and there's a lot of influencers and just a lot more transparency. Um, and so yeah, just I kind of have taken that diagnosis and used it for something good.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

That's awesome. I'm so happy you're so open on talking about that because it's something a lot of people live with, but they're scared, you know, they don't want to mention it. What happened like when you found out? How did it happen? If you're comfortable talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

So I was dating somebody for like five or six months, and I would say that I was very in love with him. Again, I was 21, so I was young, and uh, we have both just gotten out of like serious relationships, so we weren't supposed to be doing anything serious, but I definitely like fell really hard. And looking back, um, I would probably define him as like an avoidant narcissistic personality, like a lot of trauma was involved with the relationship, not just from the herpes, but like from him just not treating me very nicely and me like being in love with him. It's actually a crazy story because he comes back eight years later, like crazy. But at the time, it was a pretty devastating diagnosis, and he wasn't my boyfriend. And I was like, why don't you want to be my boyfriend? No one's ever gonna love me. I'm a monster, you know. I had a lot of suicidal thoughts. Um, luckily, I had like a good support system. My best friend was there for me, and the internet honestly was there for me, and so um that's kind of how I was like, Oh, I can if I can help just one person, like it's worth like being open about. So we weren't even like in a real relationship. I'm using air quotes. You're in a situation ship, yeah, exactly. Before that's what the cool kids were calling it, and so yeah, I had known him for like a year or two. We had worked together at a restaurant. Um, and so it was about five months into our relationship. I got diagnosed. Um, it was super painful and awful. And I was like, Oh, it was five months in the relationship. Five months we were seeing each other, yeah. And then you found out, and then I had an outbreak, and I was like, what the hell is this? I need to go to the doctor. Did you confront him? Yeah, he was like my second phone call, probably, and he like freaked out too. Um, and he was actually really kind to me like during the like outbreak because I like couldn't have sex. That was the other thing, is like you're having this like horrible virus attack your body. You're like, no one's ever gonna like want to have sex with me again. And then you're like, am I ever gonna want to have sex again? Because I'm in so much pain. Like it was painful. Yeah, the first time was really painful. Now, I mean, 10 years later, like I hardly think about it, and like honestly, I only get an outbreak very rarely if I'm like stressed or maybe I have the flu or something. Like, it's very manageable and rare the first time, especially like not having the resources of like you know, sex out in school. You go to school, they tell you like don't have sex, or you're gonna get all these horrible diseases, or you're gonna get pregnant, and they just like scare tactic you. So it's not like okay, well, what happens when you actually do have symptoms? Like, what do you do? You know, and like I'm a hypochondriac, so like I was already like going to the doctor, like I'm very I was always very responsible, like getting tested and stuff. But um, herpes is one of those um viruses that can be transferred skin-to-skin contact. So even if you're not like having actual intercourse, but you're like rubbing up on each other or like germs mix in bed, you know? So it's just one of those elusive like viruses and STIs that's like very, very common, but very stigmatized.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

How did you feel like when you had found out? Like, what was your initial reaction yourself?

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Oh my god, I was like just all self-hate, like self-doubt, um, just thinking that I was a bad person and I'm not this type of person. How could I get this? Like, he was like the fifth person I had ever had sex with. I was like 21, you know, like still kind of exploring and like coming into my womanhood. And so it was like it was a real uh obstacle too, because you know, I feel like part of being sex positive is talking about sex itself and communicating in relationships. When I feel like that's a really big lack that our generation has had.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Like girls, so true, so true.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Right? Like it's like you should be able to talk about sex with your partner, but like a lot of times it's very, a very difficult conversation to have. And so, yeah, having an STI, I was like, oh my god, like I'm disgusting, you know? And even so, like years later, like those messages still, if especially if you're online and like you see a troll commenting on someone's, you know, like those messages are still there and you can still like feel them a little bit, you know. I mean, it doesn't just like disappear, but you have to just like hold fast to like what you know and and what you believe and and your boundaries and values and all of those things, and like scientific facts, you know, or like it's I don't know, the who estimates that 80% of the world population has one type or other of herpes. Wow. Yeah, it's a lot. And the and the numbers aren't very like necessarily super accurate. There's probably more people that have it, but unless you're having symptoms, you're not going to get tested. So, like if you're a little kid and you share a popsicle with somebody or a relative kisses you and you get you get a cold sore when you're little, and then years later you're going down on somebody and they are like, oh my god, I have a herpes outbreak. You know, that could easily be from them.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

People's initial thought is like, oh, it's because I had sex with you, and that's why I got in and I wasn't wearing a condom or whatever, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, it's like promiscuous. Like, yeah, it's like, oh, you're slut. Like, yeah, that's totally how I felt for sure. Like, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

And I feel like there's some double standards too, like with males versus females. Like, if a female has, you know, let's say herpes or something else, like you're a hoe, you know what I mean? Versus the other way, it's like, oh, like, who did that to you? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 7:02

So true. Yes, absolutely. I feel like so. This guy came back into my life eight years later. It was a disaster, of course. Like, why would it not be anything else? But he told me, and I didn't know this at the time, that the doctor, like the actual physician, told him, like, she probably got it from somewhere else and is lying to you because like you've probably had it for years and blah blah blah blah blah. And so he was like under the impression that like I was like hoeing around on him when I was like madly in love with him, and I would say what the doctor told him. The doctor, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

You would see my face from my mouth, my mouth just dropped because I cannot believe this shit. Oh my, what did you say in response to that?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Well, I was just like, I had no idea that that's what he told you. Like, you should have talked to me about it. Like, obviously, I was like, I was super in love with you. I wasn't sleeping with anybody else. Like, it was for sure from you. And you know what I found out? He gave his most recent ex-girlfriend herpes as well. So who's the pro who was who's the spreader here? Who's the one doing it? Okay, dude. So you're not even disclosing, and you're just like, Yeah. And he was like, She told I we made contact, her and I. How did you even know? It's crazy, dude. Yeah, that's a weird story. She so basically him and I started talking. He like reached out to me on this. Eight years later. We I hung out with him. It's like magical. We go on a date, it's amazing. But he tells me he's like coming out of a pretty toxic relationship, blah blah blah. So whatever. Him and I sleep together, and then he like freaks out and he's like, I still love my ex and da da da. And I was like, Okay, dude, like, we obviously can't be friends, and so we stopped talking. I think I texted him like happy birthday, like a couple months later. And she found my Instagram and sent me like this super long message about all this shit, like all this shit. And so one of the things. Were they together at the time? No, they were broken up. Yeah, they were broken up, and they were broken up when I was like what I when I saw him too. So, but yeah, she told me some crazy shit, and then she told me that he also gave her herpes, and I was just like disappointed because like it's just something that he could have avoided. And the thing about it too, though, with men is like if you don't know your diagnosed, especially men, like they could just have like a sore and it could be really small and minor, and they wouldn't think anything of it. It could be like a scab or like a scratch or something, you know what I mean? And they wouldn't like consider that and then still go and have sex with people. Yeah, like whereas women were like, What is that? Yeah, like what the f I'm like freaking out. Like, oh my god, yeah, like I just didn't feel that yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah, I freak out too, don't worry. Um, once he reached out to you and like told basically blaming you for it, did you confirm be like, okay, well, I know that you know it's you and you're spreading it, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

After he, after the girlfriend told me, no, I never no, just not even worth it. Good for you. I did, you know what I did do? I did message this girl, this like younger girl who's like 21 or two. I don't know her, but his his crazy ex. Sorry, she's a little crazy. They're both like toxic. It's honestly, yeah, it's a it would be a great like teen drama show, the two of them. But she told me about this like younger girl that he was sleeping with while he was like still talking to his ex. And like she told me, yeah, she just kind of gave me the tea. And so, like, me, I'm a librarian, I'm very good at uh the internet, and so like I figured out who she was on Instagram. I sent her a message that basically was like, he's just not a very nice person, and like I'm 30 and I'm telling you this, and you're 22. Like, don't waste your time on him, you know. She, what was her response? Kind of she was like super thankful. I like told her, like, yeah, I was like, you know, he gave me herpes, he gave his ex herpes. I was like, I doubt he told you he has it, so like be careful. And also, you I was like, I don't know you at all, but like you definitely deserve better than this guy.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Wow, good for you. Kind of savage, but he deserved it. But yeah, seriously, girl. You're out here trying to save people, so that's fine. Yeah, right here at this point. When you like found out and you went to the doctor and everything, from there, would you say that's kind of where your passion for sex positivity came out? And did you start like heavily researching like a bunch of stuff?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, so I think my luckily I had a really I still have her, the same gynecologist, when I was diagnosed, and she was like super supportive and very kind and like nothing like that doctor I just told you about. And I've had some other like experiences like with physicians and medical pe personnel who it's just like really disappointing because you're like duty or in the medical field and this is how you treat people. Anyways, um, the sex positivity definitely came in after the herpes, but I think it was a slow burn, like it definitely took some time for me to get comfortable with my diagnosis and like talk about it with people, and like there was definitely some hard times with just like like you would be surprised how many herpes jokes you could hear in college at a party. You know what I mean? Like I just it just was a part of the culture, and like I remember I watched a Dane Cook special with my friend Tommy, and he has like a whole herpes skit, and at the time I was like mortified in my mind, like you know, and it was it's actually really funny. Like now I like think it's hilarious and like send it to people, but at the time I was like, oh my god, I felt like the scarlet letter. Yeah, um, and then what kind of honestly like having the herpes, talking about it with people, eventually like it became just like a thing that people know in my friend group. And so I've had a lot of friends like, hey, my friend is concerned, can she talk to you? Or my friend was diagnosed, can they talk to you? So like I've had a lot of that throughout the years, and then um the sex positivity really started coming through when I got out of like an abusive relationship. Um, and part of it not like physically but emotionally, um, but part of it was like I didn't want to have sex, like I was very like turned off and just like not sexual, and I was working like two jobs. I was really like not taking care of my body, so there's just a lot of factors going on, and like I thought it was me, I thought it was my fault, you know. So I'm like doing all this research, and it turns out like it was just a lot of stress from this awful relationship. And so once that ended, I was like, well, actually, during that relationship, I read this book called Becoming Cliterate by Dr. Lori Mince. Have you ever been?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

I kind of recommended that book to me as well, but I have not read it.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Girl, you have to read it. Every, every actually, men should read it. All men, well, not gay men, but anyone who's sleeping with women with clitoris for sure. So yeah, I like try to get my ex to like read that book or just like take an interest in what I was trying to say and communicate about our sex because it was such a problem for me. Like, I was like not getting aroused and all this stuff. And so I read this book and I was like, damn, maybe it's like not me, you know. And I think that a lot of women experience that, and like a lot of women don't know what an orgasm feels like, and they don't know that like it's okay to not come from penetration, and like the clit is actually really important, and like yes, girl, we're not taught that. And so, yeah, I think that like combined with the STIs, it kind of just led into this like other area where I'm like, okay, well, this is definitely an intersection and like also super important, and so it just it's kind of like I think of sex positivity as like an all-encompassing, like an umbrella of all of these different things, you know. So I think it took some time. I I made an Instagram like last year for the sex positivity, and it's like a slow going because I'm like not a digital content creator, so I'm like, damn, I can't believe people do this for a real job. Like, it's a lot, it's exhausting. Yeah, it really is. I'm like already exhausted from like going on apps, you know, more than I should. You know what?

SPEAKER_01 14:55

The more women I talk to, it's very it always hurts my soul. But I feel like a lot of us have well, not just women, but people in general have been through at least one abusive relationship in our life, whether it's emotional, physical, or both. Because I have myself too, emotionally and physically, was in an abusive relationship for like three years. Um as like two, yeah. See, and like people don't really understand one, how that could have an effect on your sex life, but also just on who you are as a person, you know, and people are the same I always hear the same thing. Why didn't she just leave? Why didn't she leave? I don't understand. And I'm like, no, you'll never understand because you were never in it in the first place. Exactly. Those type of relationships can be very like um manipulative and make like you said, make you think like you're crazy.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Exact I was just gonna say that they literally just gaslight you and make you think everything you're feeling or experiencing is crazy and didn't happen and you're insane, and and it really does make you question like your own reality.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah, it's so I'm sure like you know, I kind of experienced the same thing coming out of that, and like you had to find yourself again. It's kind of what it sounds like, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Sure, yeah, and like it's still like I still have chosen after that abusive relationship, I still have chosen to avoid it, narcissistic personalities, and so I feel like I finally have identified a pattern, but like it's never you know, it's not easy, yeah. And like, of course, a lot of times, like those people show you a really beautiful side first, right? And they pull you in. Of course. So the first year you're like, oh, this was amazing. This is my love of my life, and then all of a sudden you're like exhausted, crying.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yo, girl, you're like, Hey, yo, what the fuck? Yeah, like what who are you? I don't even know you anymore, type shit. When you finally like found yourself and like really educated yourself in all these different areas, and you're kind of like, you know, I guess going up out of that trauma. How does it like affect like your current like life or sex life? Like, do you disclose it to people? How does that conversation go?

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Great question. Um, I've done a lot of different methods throughout the years. So, like, I have put it on my dating profile, which is like a pretty good way to just like weed people out, um, like right off the gate. It's not a perfect science though, because like I have let some people through. So here's the thing there's the guys that are like, no problem, I fuck, I'm down, I don't care. And you're like sick, but then you're like, hmm, when's the last time you were tested? You know, and then you're like, Woo, red flag, red flag. Like, is this guy just like not that it's wrong to have sex, but just like, what is he gonna do with my emotions? Is what I mean. So there's like those guys, and then there's the guys that are like, you're so brave, you're so amazing, I'm super down, like whatever. And so, like, one of my stipulations was that like, if you're gonna date me, like you have to be super down to go down on me. Like, that is not an option. And and because I've gone out with so many guys who were like, Yeah, I'm so down, I'm so woke. Like with my last boyfriend, I literally was like, I'm not going down on you tonight, like you haven't gone down on me forever, you know. Like, and he got so offended by it. And I'm like, dude, I'm just making an observation. What did what was his comments? He just got super defensive and was like, You're attacking me. And I was like, Okay, I could, I'm sure maybe like I'll give him this. Like, maybe it wasn't the right moment, and I should have done it in a less like I'm not doing that, you know, like snappy kind of way, but like it wasn't really that, like, I don't know. Maybe I'm biased.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah, but I was gonna say, girl, if you need it, you need it. It needs to be there, it just needs to be.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Like I said, like it just is such an unpleasant feeling when you're like having sex with someone and they're literally fucking you, but they won't go down on you, and then they expect you to go down on them. And I'm like, oh girl, it's like so unfair. I am not for that at all. Yeah, and it's hard because I feel like growing up, like it was all about the like again, female orgasms, not discussed, clitoris, like how foreplay actually takes about 20 to 40 minutes for a woman to actually get really actually scientifically ready for sex. Yeah, you know, and so like and then again at the beginning of a relationship, you're super turned on, you're excited, it's quick, you're like, oh, let's but then like two years later, you're like, dude, you need to like do something, you can't just stick it in, you know? It's like okay, like it's not the first six months of being together, like you actually have to put effort into this. And so, yeah, so there's those guys, and then there's like people who are like ill or what are you on, if you don't mind me asking? Like, are you on apps? Oh, oh, oh, apps.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Oh no, never mind.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Um, I uh I'm half hinge, but to be honest, I'm not really dating right now. Okay, yeah. Are you just like not looking? You just wanted to you? Um, well, uh, my most recent boyfriend dumped me in March, and I've just been having like a hard time. No, it's fine. It was like a two-month relationship. Like, we've been broken up longer than we like knew each other at this point, but I'm still just having a little like it's just hard. He just bamboozled me a little bit, so I've been just like taking my time. I did go out with one guy, but just so I could like rip the band-aid off, but then I was like, the well, the why is not there. Like, I'm not ready to like actually want to like put effort into like meeting someone. It's exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, girl, it's it's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

I was actually thinking about on the way here, like one, you know, what we're gonna talk about, and like how I said before, like putting herpes on my profile, like, oh, it was such like a what do you say? Like, what's the state? So there's a couple things. Like, the last thing I had was like the one thing you should know about me is I have HSB1, her um, aka cold sores, or I said cold sores, aka the herpes virus, which 80% of the world population has. If you're not down to go down, I'm not down. And that's the message that my most recent ex like responded to, and we have this like whirlwind romance. So, like, like I said, like there's some guys that are just like super down and don't care, but then they like still come with like the issues that relationships still come with. So it's like, damn it, they didn't get through. Like, I dated this guy when I lived in Boston. We went on out on three dates. Is this the recent one? No. Oh, this is this was after the one. Yeah, so this is like I don't know, 2018 or so. Um, it was after the abusive relationship. We went out and we did have sex on the first date, which apparently is like so shocking to some people.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

I'm not shocked by that.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

I'm not shocked. And I will say it was like a in the heat of the moment disclosure, like we were making out, which I normally don't like to do. I like to like give it to you before like anything. We're in any sort of heated moment, so you can make like a rational decision. But sometimes shit doesn't happen like that, you know? Yeah, and like we used a condom, we didn't have oral sex, whatever. And so the next day I sent him up. All these resources. I was like, here you go, blah blah blah. If you're not down, it's cool, just let me know. And he was like, No, I'm down, like, I really want to see you again. So we went out two more times. We had a we had great chemistry. Like, we were definitely like seeing like if this could go somewhere. And it was Thanksgiving. So Thanksgiving goes by, you know, we don't see each other that week. We were seeing each other like once a week. We come, we both come back, and I like don't hear from him. And so I texted him and I was like, Hey, like, am I gonna hear from you? Do you wanna hang out? Blah blah blah. He like doesn't answer me for a long time. And then when he does, he says, Sorry to say, but herpes is holding me back. And this is after we f like multiple times. Okay, like what? Yeah, so I'm like, you couldn't have figured that out like after the first time. I'm you know what I mean? Like, and then it's just really hurtful too at that point because it's like, okay, you've gone on three dates with me, we have this connection, and then you're still deciding, you're leveraging like not having herpes over like meeting this great girl, or so I thought.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

I mean, it sounds like bullshit, like something else was going on, to be honest. And he was using it as an excuse to get out, maybe, and then get this.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

I like didn't answer because I was upset, and then I answered the next day, and I was like, you know, I really liked you, and this was like really hurtful. Like, you could have decided this before having sex with me multiple times. And he goes, He did okay, disclaimer, he did like text me after this and like apologize like weeks later and was like, I'm such a dick. But he goes, if you didn't want your feelings to get hurt, maybe you shouldn't f on the first date.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

I cannot believe it.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

I don't know, dude. So it's just like they're all they're all they're out there. I literally was like, first of all, there's something wrong with me on the first date. And second of all, if you're so scared of getting an STI, maybe you should, maybe you should wait. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, total dig. That was a total dig move. Yeah, well, okay, so I feel like I've been saying all negative things. There was there's been multiple times movie moments where like you just close to someone and they're like, oh my god, I have it too. Okay, really? And then you're like, Yeah, exactly. So that's fine. Then you're like, what type do you have? How'd you get well? Actually, origin stories aren't always a part of it. I feel like I'm nosy, so I usually am like, what happened? How did you feel? I'm like, let's have a podcast interview like this, you know. I mean, but but most guys you're like, eh, it was no big deal, you know, whereas like I'm like, in all the females I know are like, oh my god, I'm a monster, you know? No, it really is so different for us, like men and women.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

So once you like have it and we disclose this, is there like because I know it's there's medication to like contain it, right? Um, just from the few things that I do know. So if you like contain it and you do have sex with somebody else, do they not get it? Like, how does that whole thing work?

SPEAKER_00 25:03

So I guess there's always a risk. There's always a risk if you're not using condoms, uh even if you are using condoms, the condoms lessen the risk. I personally don't take antivirals. Um, you can take them daily as a suppressive. Um, it's hard on your liver though. Um, and I definitely think like if I have an outbreak, I would definitely like pop some, you know, like I have some for sure because it just helps it go away faster. But the thing is, so basically herpes, all herpes viruses, so shingles, chickenpox, um, herpes simplex, um, they all live in your nervous system. So they just go dormant. So it the antivirals basically make it harder for the um, I don't I don't know the exact science, but they make it harder for the cells to like replicate and leave the bottom of the spine and go into wherever your first infection site is. So they're like suppressive. Um, if you're taking those and you're using condoms, the chance is like 1% per year. Oh, here's the other fun fact about herpes and biology and women getting the short end of the stick per usual. We're twice as likely to get herpes compared to men, based off of yeah, just because our our genitals are like mucus-y and more um warm and just great places for bacteria and viruses to thrive, whereas men is more just regular skin and not so many like orifices and stuff. So we're just like more susceptible. Honestly, like for and I had a guy that was a nurse and like we were talking and whatever, and he was like really weird and bugged out about herpes and like wanted me to take antivirals, and I was like, look, I'm sorry, but like I'm not gonna do that. And like I totally respect him asking that, but it's just not something that I want to do for my body. Like, I don't I don't I feel like I don't need it. I'm not having outbreaks, like, my body can fight the virus on its own. Like, if you're on antivirals and you're using condoms and you're like avoiding sex when you have an outbreak, like you're probably gonna be fine. If you're doing one or the other, you're probably gonna be fine. I personally have never given it to anyone, and I have not used condoms with like many, many of my like boyfriend partners, you know. Like, we've made the decision to not use them, so yeah, I've never given it to anyone as far as I know.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

That's awesome. I mean, like that you haven't like passed it along to other people, but also that you're open about it and you like don't hide it, you know what I mean? Because a lot of people do what I it's it's a hard thing to talk about. You don't know how people are gonna react. And I'm sure you've had some really, you know, bad reactions that you're just like, yo, what the f you know, that are very discouraging.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

So and yeah, and I think a lot of it too comes with like how you present yourself too. So like when you're 21 and like broken and heartbroken and like so sad and feeling awful, and you're coming to someone and you're like, Oh, I'm so ashamed of myself, I feel so shameful, you know, that comes out, and so having this confidence to like talk about it really like gives people like, oh, it's not like she's it's not a big deal because she doesn't think it's a big deal, you know what I mean. So I think that's one thing for people with her bees they have to learn, like, is you really do you have to fake it till you make it, even if you don't feel that way, you have to like present it that way because like people vibe off of what you're giving, you know what I mean? So like your energy has to be like it's no big deal, and then they're more likely to take that on. Whereas if you're like you're freaking out, they're gonna freak out too. Exactly, exactly. Um, it is kind of an awkward thing to talk about, like with my family though, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Like, oh yeah, like were you open to them right away when you found out to take some time? How do they react?

SPEAKER_00 28:43

I told my mom right away. Wow. Um, which is kind of funny because like, you know, people are like, my mom's my best friend, like I love my mom. We're close, but like we don't talk about like sex and stuff. Like, that's just not something we talk about. I completely understand. Okay, yes, I'm sure they like make their own like conjectures about what I've been doing, but like, no, we don't talk about that. But I I don't remember why. I just felt like I you know what it is, it's the Catholic guilt in me.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Like, I was Catholic too.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Oh my god. I was like, I need to confess my sins to my mommy, basically. And I remember I told her in my car we were going somewhere, and I was like crying, obviously, because I was super upset. And my mom like cried too, and she was like, You have that forever. And I was like, Yeah, I fucking know. And she was like, Well, I still love you, which was nice, but also I'm like, I hope so. Now I look back, I'm like, yeah, obviously, she doesn't have the tools or knowledge to like respond and be like, it's fine, or like I have it too, or like whatever, you know. So, but it was nice, so I yeah, I never told my dad, obviously, but like I'm sure she did. I'm sure she's a blabbermouth, and then like I did tell my brother, which is like awkward, but like not awkward because they're homies, yeah. Um but honestly, it's kind of weird but interesting. Like, because I have herpes and because I've struggled struggled with mental illness and like all that stuff, and my brother knows all that. He dated somebody who didn't disclose to him until like aft like after a while because they're like so ashamed like of themselves, right? Because that's what happens, and so knowing me and like my experience made him like such a good boy in that situation. I was like so proud, you know. So like it's good that you share, you know? But yeah, it was like validating. I was like, okay, I'm glad my big brother like learned something from me, and now he's like using it to be like nice to this girl who's like struggling with that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

That's an awesome, like positive thing that comes out of that, yeah. And like you being open, you know. What would you say was the biggest thing that kind of got you through those like really hard times where you were understanding what it was and you just found out what it was and you were kind of embracing it, you know?

SPEAKER_00 30:54

I would say like the first three years, I was like so still heartbroken over the guy that gave it to me and just like really struggling. So I feel like what got me through is just like well, first of all, my friends for sure. Like having just like a really supportive um group of girlfriends who just like made me feel valuable. Um, but I think another thing that really helped me is just like going to therapy. Yeah, and just like I think just growing, it's just funny, like when you're younger, you think you know it all, and you know, you're so like invincible, and then you get older and you're like, man, if I had just known all these things that I know now. I know it's like such an age-old thing to say, but it's like such a true thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Like I'd slaughter the shit out of myself.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

My younger son, yeah. Like I wish I could go back to my 21-year-old self and be like, dude, you're gonna be fine, it's all good, you're gonna f you're gonna have orgasms, people are gonna love you still. Like, it's okay, you know. But I didn't have you know, you're when you're in that situation, it's always hindsight 2020. You're like, damn, if only, you know. So we're imparting knowledge onto the world, hopefully. Yes, yes, everyone, pay attention, take freaking notes.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

So when it comes to sex positivity, specifically, for somebody who comes to you and is like, I don't even know what like what does that even mean? Like, what would you say? Like, what are the main things you like talk about when it comes to well?

SPEAKER_00 32:15

First, I would say to like define sex positivity, you would say that it's having a progressive attitude towards sex and sexuality, and I would say an extension of that is gender, gender identity. Um and then you have sex education, which is a huge part of sex positivity. So, sex education is advocating for comprehensive sex education, advocating for contraceptives, and then I I don't want to speak obviously for the whole sex positive community, but I would say like a majority of the sex positive community is pro-choice and definitely advocates for women's healthcare rights. Um, and so that's also a branch of it. So, like I said, it's like a big umbrella, and there's all of these different like intricate pieces, like another part of sex positivity or like an aspect that I like to talk to my friends and women about in general is like UTIs or BV or yeast infections, like things that you don't learn when you're in middle school that you absolutely should learn about. Because when you go home after like your sweaty soccer practice as a teenager and you're like, something doesn't seem right with my body, but you have no idea what it is, and you're embarrassed to talk about it and to even say the names of your body parts, like those are the things, like right, like if you had just learned to like pee before and after sex in high school or whenever you started having sex, you know what I mean? Like, maybe you wouldn't have gotten a UTI that one time, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 33:41

So, like those types of things growing up, like you said, kind of earlier, talking about sex, and I grew up actually in a Catholic school up until college. Oh wow, so you were in it, yes, girl. It was like an like an unspoken thing, like a sin beyond sins. If you did it before marriage, and I feel like it's more openly talked about now, which I am thankful for for the younger generations, but back then for our generations, it was just like we were so uneducated, you know, so taboo, and kind of like you. Like, I learned my sex life, like some sex things, the things I like from like not the greatest experiences and not the greatest guys, which sucks. So I'm really happy that you know we have more people who are openly willing to talk about it because I it's a really important thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yeah, and it it it extends too, like it extends to I would say relationships. So, like in sex education, like we should be teaching about consent and like you should be teaching about domestic violence and like how emotional abuse appears in relationships and like all of these things, but of course, you know, especially in conservative states like Arizona, so before life just got carried away, I was working on a podcast with a friend, a sex education podcast, and so we were doing all of this research, and like there's only like twenty-something states that legally require sex ed to be medically accurate. What? So in all of these conservative states, Mississippi specifically, um, like it's not legally required for them to teach medically accurate information on sex. So what the f are they teaching? Exactly. Like super anti, like it's just all you know, it's all abstinence. It's all if you have sex, you're going to hell. If you're gay, you're going to hell. There's a lot. There's some states that require, like, California has LGBTQ um like content and information for those students, which obviously, as we know, like more as the future goes on, more people are coming out as as those identities younger because they feel like they have the space to, despite what you may see on some news networks, and like yeah, like you would never know. But um, other states like actually will teach, you know, against they'll they'll teach you that being gay or having you know those kinds of identities is bad and wrong, and they're allowed to do that.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

I mean, it's true, like, even in one of my theology classes in high school, I shit you not. We would get extra credit if we would go and we would um picket at abortion clinics. That was what extra credit was. And of course, when I was younger, I'm just like confused about it, but now I'm like, what the f? That is like one of the most wrong things I've ever like realized that I experienced in my life, you know?

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Yeah, and it's such indoctrination because like you like you said, you're young and you don't know, so you like you grew up in a culture, you believe your parents, and you believe you know, whatever, and like do you listen to Jessie Reyes at all? No, okay, you should. She's awesome, but she's like a Colombian-Canadian, and she just has this one song where she talks about how like she thought she was going to like going straight to hell out the first time she had sex, and like she feels like horrible and she because she's Colombian, she grew up super Catholic, you know, and so there's just like this this fear, it's almost like I feel like I was more afraid of my parents like the time, and so actually, I have a friend, um, she lives in Maine, and she was kind enough to share with me that she waited to have sex with her partner for like a really, really, really long time to build like that intimacy and that trust. And then when they finally did have sex, it was like amazing, really. Yeah, and so and she told me I haven't done the research myself, but she was like, Yeah, there's a ton of research that shows if you wait to have if you wait to have intercourse, so they did other stuff, but if you wait to have intercourse with somebody and you take that time to get to know them and get to know their bodies and blah blah blah, the chance of a long of a longer relationship is like much more successful, and it will and it it depends on what you're looking for. Like, if you're just if you're horny and you're like, Oh, I want to go hook up with someone, like, yeah, girl, get it, you know. But it's like if you're looking, if you if you want to protect your emotions and you're not wanting to get entangled, then you have to be more intentional about it. So, not to make this all about shit talking men, but this is like my wannabe like dream job. Um, my last relationship, I told him. So I spent like a year being single, which was like a long ass time for me, boy crazy girl. So in January, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna get back on the app, I'm gonna make an effort. And so I match with my ex. And this is your recent ex? My most recent ex. Okay. And he's the one that responded to my herpes disclosure on hinge and was like, This is super vulnerable. I'm so down, seems like we get along. We meet up, so we have this like whirlwind romance kind of, but on our so on our fourth date, so first date we just kissed, second date we hook up, we don't have sex, and he tries and I say no. Third date, again, he tries, I say no. And then I like we're texting all this time, and so before the fourth date, I kind of told him, like, you know, obviously we have really great chemistry and like I'm attracted to you and all of those things, but like I want to wait to have sex until like I'm in a committed relationship. And he was like, Yeah, I totally respect that. And so I go over to his house fourth date, and we like hook up, no, no sex again, and he was like, he was like, I just don't get why you want to wait. And so I was like, Yeah, I was like, I just I was like, you know, we're getting to know each other, and I really like I said before, I don't want to commit or I don't want to have sex unless like I'm committed to somebody. Like, I just don't wanna if this doesn't work out, I don't wanna have given myself to you that way. I've done it too many times before, and like I'm tired of it, you know. Like I wanna be really intentional about this. And he goes, Well, do you want to be my girlfriend then? And I hesitated and I was like, Because is he asking you because he wants to f or because he actually likes you? Right. So I was like, What? And he was like, No, no, not just because of the sex, but he was like, I really like you know, he gave me the whole spiel, and he was like, I just like I really like you and I really see this going somewhere, and blah blah blah. And so I just like it kind of just like whatever fettered off the conversation. We like go out, we have a super good night, he tells me he's falling for me, blah blah blah. So fourth day, I end up having sex with him because you know, how could I not? I was like so into him. And then I we like woke up in the morning and I was like, okay, like I guess I'm your girlfriend now. And then like whirlwind romance happens, right? He invites me to his cousin's wedding, all this shit. Wow. Two months in, he dumps my ass. Like, after I just invited him, after he had literally just met like so many of my friends, he went to a barbecue the day before with my whole like freaking friends. Like, it was just so so out of the blue and so awful. What the f happened? Um, I we like we went to the rodeo with my family with my parents, and he at one point told me I needed to be nicer to my parents because I was like super on edge because like things with him and I were off already before this, like I could just tell. I felt it in my body. So we like went to bed one night, we didn't have sex, which was super unusual. And in the morning, he woke up and was like, I had a really bad dream about us. And I was like, Oh babe, I'm sorry. Like, are you okay? And he was like, I'm just traumatized and was like mad at me. Yeah, it was like dating, it was like like you see it in the movies, like with a girl doing that. That's what happened, and I was like, And I could just tell, like, he was just annoyed with me. Like, I could just tell, like, I could just feel it was off. So, this is like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. We go to the rodeo, and yeah, I and he says I was like, I need to be nicer to my parents. I will be the first to say I definitely have an attitude problem. I get annoyed with my mom for sure, and it's just because like I want like this is the second time he's hanging out with him. I don't want her to drink too much. She dropped her phone, like I you know, it was just stressful, things were weird with him. So, yeah, like it I was not at my best, 100%. And he didn't like that. And so the next day he like confronted me about it, and it just turned into this whole thing where he basically was like, You need to treat me better. And it was just like a lot of gaslighting um because the sex thing happened where I was like, uh, I'm not gonna go down on you tonight, honey. And so he didn't like that. And then yeah, it was just a lot of like devaluing me as a person. But when we broke up, he was like, I you know, I said something like it's clear to me now, like you weren't interested in a relationship, like you obviously just wanted to have sex, and you rushed this, like you for sure rush brush this. You invited me to your freaking family's wedding. I met his whole family, everyone, and then he freaking dumped me like that. Like, I you know, it's just like not something you would expect to you're making this so serious.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

It's sad to say, I used to think like if he brings you over to meet his mom or his family, he's serious about you. But now I hear a lot of guys who will do that and then they just dump your ass afterwards, and that literally happened to me as well. And I'm like, yo, what the f and I met your mother, like I met your mom and your siblings. Like, I don't understand. So I guess it's not such a special thing anymore, like it was in the old days.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Yeah, like okay, well, news flash to me. I'm like, dude, I'm like, this is serious. That's what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

I think the same way.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

God forbid, I'm my I'm myself and I have an off-night, like I have flaws as a person. But basically, in the text message, he was like, You have a lot of issues about sex. And I was like, why? Because you manipulated me into being your girlfriend when I actually said no the first time and like hesitated. I like it was just such a gaslighting moment where I was like, No, I wanted to wait to have sex, and now he's saying, like, oh well, you wanted to wait and like you're crazy for doing that. And yeah, we rushed it, but not because of sex, just because of you. You know what I mean? I was just like, dude, are you serious? Like, so it's like I'm damned if I do, I'm damned if I don't. I don't. So I should have just you on the second date, and then you would have done my ass, anyways. Like, I guess I could have saved time that way. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

It's a whole it's a puzzle for us, and for them, it's just a game. Like, that's kind of you know, like how I look at it. Like, we have to move our pieces right, we have to use our bodies right, we have to choose whether to give them or not give them, but either way, like we still get somehow.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

And it's just so frustrating when, like, I don't know, I just was like so open and so ready to like meet my person, and I was like, I just fell for it all, you know what I mean? Like all my defense mechanisms like failed, you know, because I it just felt so good to be like wanted and loved and like comfortable, you're comfortable and you felt safe, yeah, exactly. And like he, but it's like he created that fake net of safety, just like rip it out from under you, and it's really jarring. And it's like herpes wasn't even a factor at all, you know, and so it's just it's just so I you know sometimes I'm like, damn, like it's still hard, like it wouldn't matter. Like, you know, like relationships are still relationships with or that are herpes.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

If you, you know, for a woman that's like maybe going through some sexual frustration or something, what's the one thing that you want them to take away from this podcast before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_00 45:00

I would say that's the one thing I want you to take away from this, and this is straight from Courtney Brame at H on My Chest at something positive for positive people, that sexual health is mental health. And they are one and the same are connected. So if you're feeling sexually frustrated in your relationship, if you're feeling like you don't know anything that I'm talking about, like you what is your glit? Like, girl, do some research, read the book, become included, like try to communicate with your girlfriends, um, get a therapist, like those sorts of things. Like, sexual health really is gonna, it's taking care of you. So get tested regularly. You know, talk to your doctor about protection or talk to your actually, don't talk to your doctor about disclosing, go online and go onto Tumblr that still exists and look up disclosing, and you'll find there's just so many more research resources available to you out there, like as opposed to when I got diagnosed, like now it's just so the TikTok, Instagram, there's so many like sex positive and herpes positive specifically things. Um, and so like you're not alone, like that's what I would say. You're not alone, and sexual health is not all.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Yeah, so please reach out to Cal's if you have any questions. And just really quick, the drinks we got today for we are at the Pemberton, and we went to a little truck called Why Not. And what did you get to drink?

SPEAKER_00 46:25

I got a passion fruit sour beer, it was delicious.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

I got like a blueberry sprite vodka gin thing mixed together. Highly recommend the area, it has little shops and like food courts in it as well.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Very cute.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Thank you so much for coming on and being so open about your life and just sex in general. I really appreciate it. This has been super fun. And we'll catch you guys next time.